The Long Game

In this episode of The Long Game, Mitch Long talks with Justin Orders, founder of Queen’s Orders Honey in Huntersville, North Carolina. Justin shares how a lifelong interest in insects, a volunteer role at Discovery Place Nature, and one hive purchased in 2018 led him into beekeeping full time.

They get into swarms, hive splitting, honey production, drought, invasive pests, and the work required to keep colonies healthy. Justin also explains how his Hive Host program, training, removals, tours, and school presentations turned a niche interest into a business with several sources of income.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT

How Justin’s interest in insects led him to beekeeping Starting with one hive and learning through trial and error How queens, swarms, and hive splitting work Protecting colonies from Varroa mites and other threats How weather and drought affect honey production Building the Hive Host program around customer demand Creating multiple revenue streams from beekeeping Harvesting raw local honey and planning for future growth

CHAPTERS

00:21 – Mitch introduces Justin and Queen’s Orders Honey 00:39 – College, biology, and an early interest in entomology 01:32 – Why working with insects felt like a calling 01:44 – Volunteering at Discovery Place Nature and discovering beekeeping 02:05 – Buying the first hive in 2018 02:34 – How a hive works as a superorganism 03:25 – Splitting one hive into two 04:52 – Catching a swarm and locating the queen 05:37 – How aggressive honeybees really are 06:32 – Protective equipment and where bees tend to sting 07:53 – Early mistakes and learning through experience 08:49 – Varroa mites and the biggest threat to a hive 10:04 – Nectar, pollen, and where bees find food 10:35 – Why honey changes color and flavor through the season 11:22 – Finding a market for the Hive Host program 12:14 – Producing more than 1,000 pounds of honey 12:42 – How drought and rainfall affect nectar flow 13:35 – North Carolina’s beekeeping community 14:10 – The homemade honey sign that started attracting customers 14:57 – Hive hosting, training, removals, honey, and school programs 15:36 – Managing hives for roughly 50 clients 16:30 – What makes a good location for a hive 18:00 – Seasonality and the challenges of running the business 19:00 – Moving hives for sourwood honey and learning from losses 19:46 – How bees survive the winter 20:24 – Harvesting and lightly filtering raw honey 22:16 – Predators, pests, and the yellow-legged hornet 23:30 – Ordering honey and connecting with Queen’s Orders Honey 24:29 – Justin’s plans for a more focused business 25:31 – How long a new hive takes to produce honey 26:29 – Teaching children about bees and pollination 27:19 – Simple ways people can support native bees

In this episode of The Long Game, Mitch Long talks with Mike Calinoff about NASCAR, dog training, and the path that led him from race-day communication to canine behavior. Mike shares how he came to North Carolina for motorsports, worked as a NASCAR spotter, and eventually built Doglogics after seeing how many dog owners needed real help at home.

They also get into positive reinforcement, why most dog training is really people training, and how predictability shapes behavior. It is a conversation about patience, problem solving, and building a business around helping families live better with their dogs.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT

Growing up in New York and moving to North Carolina for motorsports Working as a NASCAR spotter The psychology of drivers and dogs Why Mike started a pet sitting business How Doglogics grew into dog training and behavior work Why training owners matters more than training dogs Puppy stages, jumping, chewing, and leash pulling Why Mike does not use shock, prong, pinch, bark, or choke collars Reactive dogs, aggressive dogs, and difficult behavior cases How consistency and predictability change a dog’s behavior

CHAPTERS

00:20 – Mitch introduces Mike and asks where he is from 00:38 – Growing up in New York and moving to North Carolina 01:15 – Coming to Charlotte for motorsports 01:25 – Why Mike started a pet sitting business after NASCAR travel 02:07 – Moving to North Carolina to become a NASCAR spotter 03:00 – Getting paid to spot for Ricky Craven 03:13 – What a NASCAR spotter actually does 03:32 – Being a second set of eyes, therapist, coach, and cheerleader 04:00 – Working with Matt Kenseth and learning how drivers think 04:45 – Championships with Ricky Stenhouse Jr. and leaving NASCAR travel 05:53 – Starting pet sitting and moving into dog training 06:28 – How dog psychology became the center of Mike’s work 07:24 – Why dog training is mostly training the owner 07:49 – Chewing cords, jumping, and what people accidentally teach dogs 08:24 – Why Mike avoids shock collars and punishment-based training 09:00 – Teaching calm behavior instead of rewarding jumping 10:27 – Puppy stages and why months four, seven, and eleven are hard 11:31 – Consistency, patience, and potty training 12:12 – Why dogs thrive on predictable patterns 13:18 – In-home training, field trips, and socialization in real life 14:04 – How Doglogics grew through results and referrals 14:30 – Behavioral cases, aggression, fear, and anxiety 16:27 – Why difficult cases are the work Mike loves most 17:15 – Food habits, routines, and keeping dogs engaged 19:09 – Why Mike handles the business himself 20:13 – What puppy training looks like before and after a dog comes home 21:20 – Why owners have to do the work between sessions 22:30 – Why the real training starts after Mike leaves 23:50 – Building a business by responding fast and helping people right away 26:50 – Leash pulling and opposition reflex 28:25 – Why Mike wrote Leash Connection 29:16 – Recall, relationship, and making the right choice worth it 30:24 – What to do when a dog runs away 33:26 – Mike’s books and his Legacy Series 34:04 – Why punishment can make fear and anxiety worse 35:28 – Where Mike sees the business going next 36:13 – Saving difficult dogs and the reward of behavior work 39:49 – Where to find Doglogics

In this episode of The Long Game, Mitch Long talks with Joe Sallee about military service, submarines, business, and the path that led him into financial planning. Joe shares how an early dream of flying in the Air Force turned into a 25-year Navy career on submarines, and how that eventually gave him the foundation for a second career helping people prepare for retirement.

They also get into the emotional side of money, why business owners often forget to plan for themselves, and how politics and headlines can derail good financial decisions. It is a practical conversation about long-term thinking, risk, and building a life that still has purpose after work ends.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT

Joe Sallee’s military background and life on submarines How a physics degree led into nuclear training in the Navy Getting interested in investing and financial planning early The move from military service into financial advising Why Joe first focused on helping military families transition How business owners neglect their own planning The role emotions and politics play in financial decisions Why retirement planning has to include purpose, not just numbers How Joe thinks about growing a business that outlasts the owner Where insurance fits into a full financial plan

CHAPTERS

00:21 – Mitch introduces Joe and asks about his military background 00:48 – Growing up in an Air Force family and wanting to fly A-10s 02:00 – Why Joe ended up in the Navy and on submarines instead 02:43 – Spending 25 years in the Navy 02:56 – What life on a submarine is really like 03:28 – Oklahoma, college, and the years at the University of Oklahoma 05:53 – Why Joe studied physics 06:51 – How Joe got interested in investing and financial planning 08:04 – Getting recruited into the industry before leaving the Navy 09:00 – Starting out by helping military families transition 09:27 – Expanding beyond that niche into business owners 10:20 – Why smart professionals often neglect their own financial planning 11:14 – Joe’s philosophy and helping clients make their dreams come true 12:00 – Why retirement planning is also psychological 12:41 – The challenge of keeping politics and emotion out of decisions 14:00 – Why Joe tells clients to stop living in the news cycle 15:18 – The size of Joe’s team and the structure of the practice 15:35 – What he wants the business to become over time 16:39 – Building a practice that can run without the owner 17:00 – How Joe reviews insurance as part of planning 18:00 – Mitch on disability insurance and protecting income 19:25 – Long-term care and self-insuring later in life

In this episode of The Long Game, Mitch Long talks with Chris Ryan about athletics, business, family, and the path that took him from Division 1 track to entrepreneurship in finance, restoration, and fitness. Chris shares how injuries changed his direction early, how he built and sold a business in South Florida, and why he eventually came back to the health and fitness world in a bigger way.

They also get into corporate wellness, consistency, nutrition, and the reality of building something that lasts. It is a conversation about second careers, long-term thinking, and why taking care of yourself is not separate from business.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT

Running for the Florida Gators and dealing with injuries Moving from elite sports into business Getting into finance and then buying into a Servpro business Why Chris left one successful path to build something more meaningful What Mirror changed about his view of at-home fitness Why consistency matters more than intensity The mindset shift from corporate work to entrepreneurship Nutrition, alcohol, and the habits that add up over time Family, kids, and trying to stay present while building a business Why Chris sees corporate wellness as a major opportunity

CHAPTERS

00:20 – Mitch asks Chris about his background, athletics, and college 00:40 – Growing up in Michigan and living near New York now 01:00 – Running for the Florida Gators as a Division 1 athlete 01:21 – Injuries, leaving track, and transferring back to Michigan State 02:00 – Studying economics and international relations 02:22 – Early interest in business and finance 03:00 – Working in finance and realizing he wanted to build something of his own 03:35 – Getting into Servpro and learning to lead in his 20s 04:24 – Building a business in South Florida and growing up fast 05:14 – Franchising, expansion limits, and selling before the financial crisis 06:00 – Travel, reflection, and figuring out what came next 07:00 – Moving toward fitness, media, and coaching in New York 08:00 – Certifications, writing, and building a brand in fitness 08:30 – NBC Strong, Mirror, and the rise of interactive at-home fitness 11:00 – Starting his own fitness platform after Lululemon 12:00 – Building workouts for busy parents and executives 13:00 – Why consistency is the real advantage 15:00 – Mitch on running, aging, and the mental side of working out 16:40 – Chris on nutrition, protein, fiber, and cutting processed foods 19:00 – Why drinks and alcohol quietly hurt progress 25:28 – What is next for Chris and the move toward corporate wellness 27:00 – How wellness could help companies lower healthcare costs 29:09 – Building with contractors and vendors instead of W-2 employees 30:00 – Chris shares where people can find his app and coaching

In this episode of The Long Game, Mitch Long talks with Casey Mahoney about Victory Sim Experience, the racing sim center he built in Hickory, NC. Casey shares how he got into racing early, worked around NASCAR, and later found a way to combine that background with technology and entrepreneurship.

They also get into the shift from building simulators for other people to creating a space where customers can come race for themselves. It is a conversation about finding a lane, adapting when a market changes, and building a business around experience instead of just equipment.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT

How Victory Sim Experience works Why sim racing is more realistic than people expect Casey’s early background in racing Working around NASCAR and local race teams How the housing crash pushed him into a career change Combining racing knowledge with IT skills Why COVID changed the sim industry Trade shows, rentals, and building a business around events What makes a sim center work as an experience Why Hickory made sense as the home base

CHAPTERS

00:21 – Mitch meets Casey and asks about the business 00:31 – What Victory Sim Experience is and how it works 01:02 – The different types of racing people can do 01:14 – How the company started building simulators in 2012 01:24 – COVID, trade shows, and the shift into events 02:07 – Turning idle equipment into a sim center 02:26 – Racing events, trade shows, and where the business travels 03:09 – Casey’s racing background and working for Bill Elliott’s team 03:39 – The recession, layoffs, and making a career change 04:00 – Learning IT and combining it with a racing background 04:30 – Building sims, growing demand, and new competition 05:29 – The sim center, reservations, and walk-in traffic 06:11 – How long people race and why 30 minutes is usually enough 06:39 – Why sim racing is not a video game 07:32 – Tracks, skill levels, and how beginners get started 08:34 – Growing up in Hickory and being a Bill Elliott fan 08:50 – What Casey actually did around race teams when he was younger 09:26 – Favorite tracks and how racing has changed over time 10:20 – Why sim racing felt new before it became mainstream 11:21 – The hardware, the cost, and why the experience matters 12:16 – Staffing, family, and Casey’s son working in the business 12:47 – Where the trade show work happens 13:24 – Using simulators to pull people into a booth 14:14 – Whether Casey wants more locations in the future 15:19 – Mitch wraps up and connects Casey’s story back to motorsports

In this episode of The Long Game, Mitch Long talks with Tom from Tutti’s Italian Market and Deli in Concord, NC about family, food, teaching, and the path that led him into the restaurant business. Tom shares how growing up in a New York Italian family shaped the way he thinks about meals, community, and what it means to bring people back to the table.

They also get into entrepreneurship, opening a business with his brother (Johnny Cook), learning from mistakes, and why Tutti’s is really about people as much as it is about food. It is a conversation about family traditions, local business, and creating a place where customers feel known.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT

Growing up in a New York Italian family How food and family meals shaped Tom early Teaching English before opening Tutti’s Why Concord felt like the right place to build something local Opening a deli without a restaurant background What Tutti’s means and why the table matters Learning patience, trust, and mistakes as a new owner How Tom and his brother, Johnny Cook, built the business together Why community matters more than transactions Building a team that feels like family

CHAPTERS

00:20 – Mitch introduces Tutti’s and asks Tom about his background 00:56 – Growing up in a second- and third-generation Italian-American family 02:00 – Tom on education, teaching, and staying connected to UNC Charlotte 03:36 – How family ended up in the Charlotte area 05:00 – A family full of teachers, writers, and creatives 06:21 – Why entrepreneurship and family history shaped the business 08:35 – Why Concord became the right place to open Tutti’s 10:14 – The market, wine, and creating a local place people remember 11:08 – What Tutti’s means and the idea of bringing people back to the table 13:13 – The Godfather, lasagna, and favorite dishes on the menu 15:07 – Making food from scratch and why that still matters 15:19 – Early business challenges, patience, and learning to trust people 16:00 – Building the deli with Johnny and opening later than planned 17:00 – Why getting open in time for his grandfather mattered so much 19:00 – Imposter syndrome and starting a food business with English degrees 20:00 – Why Tutti’s is in the people business 21:36 – Repeat customers, community, and knowing people by name 22:07 – How catering became a bigger part of the business 24:20 – Staffing, culture, and building a strong team 26:10 – Family meal with the staff on Tuesdays 27:08 – Mitch on family dinners and why they mattered so much 28:17 – Why this building felt right from the start 29:00 – Creating the kind of local place people come back to

In this episode of The Long Game, Mitch Long talks with Nick O’Kelly about military life, aviation, family, and the road that led him into financial planning. Nick shares how he went from struggling in college to becoming a Green Beret, then a Blackhawk pilot, before eventually starting over in a new career after leaving the military.

They also get into the mindset shift of moving from service into sales, how Nick built his practice, and why his approach to financial planning starts with the end state in mind. It is a grounded conversation about discipline, family, long-term thinking, and helping people make better financial decisions.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT

Nick O’Kelly’s path from college to Special Forces Serving as a Green Beret in Okinawa Becoming a Blackhawk pilot and flying in special operations Why he left the military and started over The challenge of moving from service into sales How Cadence Wealth Partners approaches financial planning Why Nick starts with the end state in mind Helping clients stay steady when markets get shaky Family, coaching, and being intentional with time Why trust and referrals matter in a growing practice

CHAPTERS

00:00 – Mitch and Nick connect over their military family background 00:11 – Nick on high school, college, and joining the military 01:00 – Special Forces training and becoming a Green Beret 01:30 – Serving in Okinawa and starting a family 01:50 – Aviation, flight school, and becoming a Blackhawk pilot 02:10 – Flying with the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment 02:26 – Mitch on growing up in a military family 02:47 – Why Nick left the military 03:24 – Building a plan before leaving service 03:40 – Becoming a finance nerd and earning the CFP designation 04:06 – The hardest part of starting in the business 04:30 – The mindset shift from quiet professional to finding clients 05:15 – Mitch on sales, listening, and helping people solve problems 06:18 – Nick explains Cadence Wealth Partners and how they plan backward 07:00 – How they review plans and keep clients focused long term 07:37 – Market swings, fear, and staying the course 09:06 – Nick on family, kids, and youth sports 10:27 – Coaching baseball and protecting time with family 11:35 – The joke behind “undefeated dad” 12:13 – Military culture, parenting, and adjusting expectations at home 13:24 – Nick on building value and growing through referrals 14:18 – Mitch on relationships that have lasted decades 14:58 – Why trust matters more than transactions 15:00 – Nick on growth, hiring, and expanding the practice

In this episode of The Long Game, Mitch Long talks with Chip Goode about sports, NASCAR, family, and how he made the jump from pit road into insurance. It starts with football and the NFL Draft, but the bigger story is about work, timing, and knowing when it is time to build something new.

Chip shares how he spent 19 years on NASCAR pit crews, what that life demanded, and why he eventually needed a different path for his family. He also gets into the move into insurance, buying an agency, and what it means to have more control over your work and your time.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT The NFL Draft and why both Mitch and Chip still believe in building through the line Why Aaron Rodgers feels like more trouble than he is worth Growing up in Statesville around racing From football and basketball to NASCAR pit crews What pit road demands physically and mentally The pressure of never missing a race Marriage, kids, and the cost of being gone every weekend Knowing when it was time to leave NASCAR How Chip found his way into insurance Why owning an independent agency gave him more freedom

CHAPTERS 00:20 – Mitch checks in with Chip and the conversation starts with business 00:46 – Rate increases, tighter underwriting, and a tougher insurance market 01:10 – NFL Draft talk and why Chip likes the Panthers building up front 02:34 – Steelers fans, draft night, and the Aaron Rodgers question 04:29 – Why teams get stuck chasing average instead of finding their quarterback 06:44 – Chip on growing up in Statesville and being around racing early 07:00 – Football, basketball, UNC Charlotte, and getting into NASCAR 07:53 – Chad Little, Jeff Burton, Juan Pablo Montoya, and life on pit crews 09:06 – How Chip first got into the sport through his dad 10:43 – Getting into Victory Lane as a kid 11:00 – From helping on weekends to jumping over the wall in 1998 12:27 – The physical and mental side of being on a pit crew 13:52 – Meeting his wife and balancing racing with family life 15:00 – A streak of 730 straight Cup races 16:26 – Why family eventually changed the way he saw the job 18:04 – Coaching, showing up for kids, and the value of flexibility 20:27 – His daughters, college, and musical theater 22:07 – Why Chip moved from NASCAR into insurance 23:23 – The call that pushed him toward Farm Bureau 24:00 – Getting licensed while still working race weekends 25:01 – The chance meeting that led to buying an agency 26:13 – What independence changed for Chip as an owner 29:00 – Mitch on starting over in sales and learning to live on what you produce 30:00 – Faith, timing, and the checks that showed up right when they were needed

In this episode of The Long Game, Mitch Long talks with Slade Lewis about how he got into insurance, the turns his career took along the way, and how he ended up in a leadership role at Pinnacle. They also get into sales, management, technology, and what has changed in the business over time.

It is a practical conversation about relationships, follow-up, and how to lead people well. It also gets into AI, rising premiums, and why clients still need a real person they can call when something goes wrong.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT How Slade Lewis got into insurance Starting out at Jefferson Pilot Leaving insurance and coming back What makes a strong manager Why follow-up still matters in sales How Zoom, DocuSign, and technology changed client meetings Where AI is starting to change insurance What rising premiums are doing to clients and agencies Why the human side of the business still matters Slade’s high school typing champion story

CHAPTERS 00:21 – Mitch kicks off the conversation from the road 01:03 – Slade on growing up in Hampstead and going to UNC 02:30 – A journalism degree with a concentration in advertising 03:09 – Slade’s first job in insurance with Jefferson Pilot 04:00 – Moving from service into sales 04:27 – The bulldog hair company car story 06:14 – Leaving insurance for pharmaceutical sales and coming back 07:20 – Product roles, UnitedHealthcare, and becoming a broker 08:26 – Slade’s current role and how he thinks about leadership 10:48 – The biggest sales challenges in insurance today 12:00 – Why answering calls and following up still separates people 13:34 – How client meetings shifted from face-to-face to Zoom 14:20 – Technology, DocuSign, and doing business across states 14:57 – Why AI may transform agencies faster than expected 15:58 – The caution around database underwriting and automation 16:50 – How AI is already shaping health insurance underwriting 17:41 – Rising health insurance costs and the pressure on employers 18:35 – Standard rate increases in the small group market 19:20 – Looking for options when traditional carriers say no 19:43 – Auto and homeowners insurance costs keep climbing 20:18 – Roof issues, storm risk, and what is driving property costs 21:36 – Slade reveals he was his high school typing champion

In this episode, Mitch and Adam talk about the NFL Draft, the Steelers, the Bills, and a couple of Pittsburgh trip stories that did not exactly go to plan.

They also get into quarterbacks, roster building, fan frustration, and why teams still have to win up front. It is a loose football conversation, but the main point is clear: quick fixes usually are not enough.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT

Pittsburgh trip stories and hotel disasters Why the draft always starts arguments The case for building the line before chasing a quarterback Why where a quarterback lands matters Whether the Steelers should give Will Howard a shot Why the Steelers feel stuck in the middle Why teams still win in the trenches Whether Buffalo is doing enough around Josh Allen

CHAPTERS

00:01 – Mitch sets up a talk about the draft and Pittsburgh trips 00:18 – Adam’s advice on where not to stay in Pittsburgh 00:43 – The hotel story that went bad fast 01:50 – The legendary bar encounter in Pittsburgh 02:19 – Running into the same guy again in Virginia 02:45 – Mitch and Adam get into the draft 03:06 – Adam on the Raiders, Fernando Mendoza, and Kirk Cousins 05:30 – Mitch makes the case for trading the top pick 09:30 – Why quarterback success depends on where a player lands 12:37 – Mobility, protection, and what the Steelers lacked last year 15:24 – Adam on play calling and helping players succeed 17:25 – What the Steelers should target in the draft 19:57 – Jeremiah Love, offensive line help, and winning in the trenches 23:37 – Mitch on following the draft without pretending to know every prospect 25:16 – The argument for seeing what Will Howard can do 27:42 – Why Adam does not want Aaron Rodgers back 30:31 – The cost of being scared to have a losing season 35:15 – Bo Nix, the Broncos, and what could have been 38:42 – Mitch turns to the Bills and Josh Allen 41:52 – Why Buffalo may be at a key point

In this episode of The Long Game, Mitch Long sits down with Wes Connor to talk about how he got into insurance, what kept him in it, and what 50 years in the business has taught him.

They get into family business, remote selling, hiring challenges, commercial and personal lines, and why life insurance still stands apart from products people are required to buy. It’s a grounded look at what still matters in the business, what has changed, and why the basics still win.

WHAT WE TALK ABOUT

How Wes Connor got into insurance in 1975 From kitchen table sales to DocuSign and video calls Why relationships still matter in a more digital business Working with family across generations Hiring challenges in today’s insurance market Commercial versus personal lines in a changing market Why life insurance feels different from mandatory coverage Disability, long-term care, and planning before it’s too late

CHAPTERS

00:20 – Mitch welcomes Wes Connor 00:41 – How Wes got into the insurance business 03:15 – Starting out and falling in love with the work 05:21 – How selling insurance has changed over the years 08:00 – Podcasts, technology, and the next generation in the business 11:00 – Working with family and building an agency over time 12:00 – Hiring challenges and the shortage of new agents 16:23 – Disability insurance, income protection, and planning gaps 16:52 – Wes breaks down his agency’s commercial and personal lines mix 19:19 – Why selling life insurance is more satisfying 21:00 – Real examples of how life insurance changes outcomes for families 23:29 – Long-term care, aging, and staying healthy

Eric Kasimov sits down with Mitch Long to kick off The Long Game. Mitch has been in the insurance business for over 30 years. He started with a pager and a roll of quarters. He built his book by showing up every Tuesday until people just started handing him the business. Now he's here to have conversations with business owners about how they got where they are — the real version, not the LinkedIn version.

What We Talk About:

- Criminal justice major to insurance salesman

- The 93-year-old woman and the bell story

- Why face-to-face still matters (and why it's not enough anymore)

- Pagers, Blackberries, and the quarantine pivot

- The buggy whip salesman problem

- NIL, college sports, and what it means to stay relevant

Chapters:

- 00:14 – What this show is and how conversations work

- 01:00 – Mitch's path into insurance

- 02:05 – College degrees as ticket punches

- 04:08 – Stories over structure

- 05:48 – The power of getting people talking

- 07:00 – The 93-year-old woman and the bell

- 08:27 – Podcasting as a way to connect

- 10:00 – Feeling heard in a distracted world

- 12:06 – 22 years of working together

- 13:00 – Old school meets new school

- 14:00 – Generation Jones

- 15:00 – Tangents are the point

- 16:08 – Face-to-face vs. Zoom

- 17:15 – NIL and staying relevant

- 19:00 – Aging up in college sports

- 20:17 – Opting in or opting out

- 21:30 – Adjusting how you reach people

- 23:00 – The Walmart joke and resilience

- 23:45 – Pagers, payphones, and quarters

- 25:00 – The quarantine as a reset year

- 26:00 – Blackberry, Gateway, and what happens when you don't evolve

- 28:00 – The buggy whip salesman

- 30:00 – Mitch's grandfather sold matches

- 32:30 – NIL and financial literacy